Stuart Vogel's emails on Interfaith Worship, Presmail, September 2003.

12 September 2003 (Reproduced with permission)

On the issue of interfaith worship, I would like to throw in a couple of comments based on what I have observed. I don’t claim these are academically right up there but they seem broadly on the right track.. 

In Chinese the words for Christian “prayer” and Buddhist “prayer are different. So too are the meanings of the words; they do not describe the same thing. There are no equivalents for Christian words or concepts such as “pastor”, “sin” or “Church” or even “God” in the other religions. Chinese Christians have their own words of course, but they are “made up”. Our non Christian Mandarin teacher in Taiwan told us that she could tell us how to pronounce these (Chinese Christian) words, but she did not know what they meant. There is no real chance from a Taoist, Buddhist or Confucian point of view of that thinking we are worshipping the same God, it seems. The problem lies in the fact that in English we use the same word for “prayer” etc across all religions because we think that we are observing the same activity in all. We aren’t. 

There is a major challenge in dialogue with these religions however. While acknowledging that the different religions are not “worshipping” (again different words in use) the same “god”, Taoism, Buddhist and Confucianism have a wide range of tolerance of each other. I have been inside temples in Taiwan, where inscriptions, idols and objects of art have been taken over from all the others, as well as from folk religion. They are there because the temple guardians see value and truth in these things. Closer to home, I have been asked to take funerals for non Christian families, where I have been free (and expected to) offer full Christian ministry. The funeral has been followed by a Buddhist ceremony. There has been no sense of contradiction or conflict.   

The issue is the apparent exclusivity of Christianity. What did Jesus mean when he said that “no one comes to the father except by me?” Exactly that, some Christians would say. It sounds rather arrogant to say the least, from a Chinese point of view. however. Typically Western, they might add, if they felt bold enough. The issue is to show how Jesus is not arrogant and not just for westerners. 

The question also arises too about what religion is for. Confucian “worship” does not aim itself at God at all. It is about creating relationships based on eternal, true and prized values. Whatever else is true, Buddhist is about changing the nature of life. To take up a recent discussion, if some gene were discovered that undeniably “proved” that homosexuality was inborn for example, it would make no difference in Buddhism. The point is to empty oneself of all passion to reach “nirvana”. Any religion, they would say, that is worthy of the name aims to re-create all of life at its deepest levels. Underlying that is a vision of what life and community should be. That is the level at which interfaith dialogue needs to operate. The first book I ever read was called “Stop. Look. Listen.” That is probably a good way to start. 

Over the years I have found meeting with serious practitioners of other faiths to be a delight. I have been handed golden opportunities to state the “reasons for the hope that is within me” in ways that never happen anywhere else. I have usually been listened to graciously and intently. I have been challenged to get my act together and come up with better and clearer explanations, which answer the real and intelligent questions that I have been asked. It is as Margaret, Clare and co have said, once you sit down with people and talk, easy answers dissolve. People of other religions who are serious about their faith are not the Great New Threat in New Zealand society. I can think of greater evils. 

By the way, I was talking to a Muslim friend while we were waiting to pick up our kids at school the other day. He is concerned about his kids’ education, George Bush and climate change. Yep, I can go with that.


13 September 2003

Just some quick, rather random further thoughts. 

  1. Let me continue the point I was making about words and their meanings; in German and Chinese the normal words for “sky”, ie “Himmel” (German) and “Tian” (Chinese) also mean “heaven”.  In Chinese “towers” traditionally (not now) were religious constructions. It is stretching free translation beyond breaking point, but as I move around Auckland each day, I am can’t avoid seeing “Heaven’s Spire” ie the “Sky Tower”. On occasions I come across parents who leave their kids in the car in the Sky City (Temple) car park for 3 or 4 hours, lose large amounts on the (idols) pokies and then don’t have anything to put on the table for the kid’s meals. They have been worshipping false gods that promise much but don’t deliver. The Government is falling over itself it seems to serve the god of mammon in the gambling industry. Although English doesn’t comfortably describe gambling etc as a religious activity and in religious terms, gambling sure has its devotees. My point is, let’s identify and name the really destructive false gods in New Zealand.

 

  1. In talking with people of other faiths, I often find myself challenged to go back to the (Christian) scripture to work out what I think might be an adequate response. True interfaith events usually drive me back to my own understandings of the Christian faith. Also in my perhaps limited experience, Muslim and Buddhist people show great respect for the Christian scriptures. I find myself doing the same for theirs. This has nothing to do with compromise. I have yet to find any Buddhist or Muslim who “waters down” or “tones down” their beliefs in any way to reach some kind of religious middle ground with me. They don’t expect me to do that either. There is value I believe in simply laying our cards on the table (sorry about the imagery) and saying this is who I am and what I believe and why.

 

  1. I am glad I belong to a tradition that affirms “there is always more light to break forth from Scripture”. While confident and sure in my own experience of Jesus’ love and grace, I know I still have lots to learn and I don’t have all the answers. I look forward to “discerning more light”, which “breaks forth” in all sorts of strange ways and it often comes through interesting and unusual people. That makes faith exciting. And lastly, when Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the father except by me” he wasn’t doing so arrogantly. Whatever he meant, he wasn’t giving me free, and arrogant, license as his follower to make my experience of Him normative for everyone else.

 I like what the South African missiologist David Bosch wrote;

 “we regard our involvement in dialogue and mission as an adventure, are prepared to take risks, and are anticipating surprises as the Spirit guides us in to fuller understanding. This is not opting for agnosticism, but for humility. It is however a bold humility – or a humble boldness. We know only in part, but we do know. And we believe that the faith we profess is both true and just and should be proclaimed. We do this, however not as judges and lawyers; not as soldiers, but as envoys of peace; not as high pressure salespersons, but as ambassadors of the servant Lord.”